Ok, I have issues with the current understanding of Ordination, I believe that, if Ordination is being set apart by the community and by God then you’re ordained through baptism. I won’t go on about this much more, because it’s late and I’m tired.
And I don’t like the current system of the Uniting Church where one has to complete a period of discernment and then, only after discerning a call do you approach a committee of people who interview you, pray, and after some time discern if they believe that you have the call that you believe you’ve discerned.
My issues are many, including the arrogance of a “sense of call towards ordained ministry” (does God really call us to be ordained, or does God just call us to be his people?) and perhaps, the issue of what happens if your sense, your discernment is solid and the committee is having a bad day when you’re interviewed, or what if they have an issue with you, or what if they come with other preconceptions about your ministry and call?
I know of many who I believe would be “called” who are told “not yet” or “no” over and, sometimes over again who still, in their belly have this discerned call.
So, my current loophole is this.
If the “call” to this form of “Ordained Ministry” is indeed one that the Church calls people to then, if the Church was to somehow come to me and enter into a conversation with me saying
“We know that you’re unsure, we’re aware of your issues re ordination, we know that you have your own difficulties and theological issues with the concept. And, with this in mind we still believe that you’re called to this ministry. In your uncertainty we are certain. We believe that we would like to ordain you, with your uncertainties, your misconceptions and differences.”
If this was to happen then I’d certainly have to think about it, pray about it, talk about it and possibly blog about it.
This kind of discernment, this form of call process doesn’t rely on me having the confidence and ability (one may also say arrogance) to walk up to the Church and say “I think I am called, do you?” But instead holds the church to it’s role of the people who do the calling and who live in hope, even in the face of someone who is not entirely sold, or even who is adverse to the concept, the idea.
It allows for a church who doesn’t need someone to say “Yes, I am called” instead, it shows a church who is able to live with people’s doubts and uncertainties and, in the face of that say “we will do this with you, we have faith in you.”
It allows for a church to say “we know you do not think that you are called, but we believe that you are”
it allows, perhaps for a church to say “we will ordain you, knowing that you still have issues, knowing that you’re not entirely sold on the idea…”
It’s what I’m calling a reverse-discernment process, and at this particular point in time is my ordination loophole.
About djwright
Hey mate
Been reading your last couple of posts about Ordination and found them very interesting. As a Lay Youth Minister in a different denomination I am often asking and thinking through many similar questions.
One Minister suggested I should seek ordination as I continue in my roles in order to better support my family in the future. Again, money seems like a strange reason to get ordained. However, it also seems odd that people with equal training and perhaps more experience get less money because they are lay ministers… something is wrong there.
I wonder if the local church plays the role of encouraging people like you or me to think about our calling and the more formal process that the church at large has is more like a safety mechanism. That is we discern our call basically at the local church level with our pastors telling us they think we might be called to some form of ministry, possibly ordained.
Anyhow, I’m just rambling but I was encouraged to see it is not just me who has some uncomfortableness with the idea and thinks the system is somewhat broken.
God bless you in your ministry and discerning!
Hey Daz just been playing around with your website and found this blog.. I wanted to share my experience both times I have been before the “panel” of people I have gone saying I think I am called to this but I am not sure and it is actually ok if you don’t agree.. I would understand.. I went with a questioning a need of clarity about what the church thought I was called to be.. From that perspective the first time it was bugger I can’t run away and live a beach bum youth worker life after all (long story) and the second time it was nice for the clarity.. Again it would have been nice to be given permission to take the easy option but unfortunately not!
Didn’t make the process any easier just felt like I was honest about it..
Hope your well, thanks for your website been a nice place to sit my brain for a bit..