This is an interview I did with Steve Taylor, author of the book “The Out of Bounds Church.”

I’ve also written an in-depth review of the book on this website (in the book review section). I think the book has been one of the better YS-Emergent released of the past two years. I may be a little biased here, but I think it’s exciting to see one of these books coming from the southern hemisphere, and that Steve’s put together a phenomenal text that not only shares stories from other communities around the world by also continues to do some theologizing about what on earth is going on in the weird missional fringes of the church.

I’d like to thank Steve for putting the time and energy into this interview, I’d thrown a lot of questions at him and he’s done well to answer many of them…

Umm, well, I started the interview a little lightly, I didn’t want to stress the NZer out with a heavy question straight off, and instead wanted to ease him into the harder questions…

So, Steve… what’s your favorite type of cheese?

• Camembert please.

I jokingly mentioned the beers that were “supporting” my review of your book, what takes your favour? Red wine, white wine or beer?

• It depends. New Zealand have these two great boutique beers called Blonde Mac and Summer Ale that I love. Then I am into red wine, pinot thanks.

Are you a mac or pc person?

• PC.

Phew, Mac people are hard to talk with sometimes… What’s on your mousepad?

• I have a laptop, so its black trim.

I’m intrigued… What possessed you to write this book, what was your inspiration?

• I never thought I’d be a writer. But one day a visitor to my weblog told me they thought I should write a book. What’s more they had emailed a publishing company on my behalf and here was the contact email. True story honest! I was in the midst of PhD research on the emerging church and did want more people than my research supervisor and 3 examiners to read the fruit of 4 years work. So that was the motivation.

You included “postcards” that you’d written from faith communities all over the world to start each chapter in your book, where would you like to get postcards from now?

• Firstly Europe. I’d love to see the emerging church turn back the tide of secularity in Europe. Secondly, a mixed ethnic church plant in Serbia. I’d love to see the emerging church embrace mission in a country riven by religious and racial tensions, like Serbia.

Are there any communities that would you like to visit now and write postcards from?

• Three places. Pernell Goodyear’s café in Canada. Mark Berry is the first CMS missionary to the UK. I’d love to write from his lounge. And Cheryl Lawrie’s Advent womb in Melbourne sounds a wonderful space to write from. Does it have wifi?

You’ve been writing a number of movie reviews on your blog, what’s your favorite movie and why?

• The DVD of U2 Go home. I can watch that for hours. I love the spirituality and the interactivity.

I’ve just got tickets for the U2 tour in Australia, are you going to see U2 in Auckland?

• Too right. I stood in queues, while my partner got on broadband at the church and somehow in the internet crush we scored tickets. I’m actually dreaming of running a live “U2″ church service on the top of One Tree Hill the Sunday night after the two concerts, but I’m not sure I’ve got on the courage.

What’s your top 3 cds at this point in time?

• Fat Freddys Drop, Based on a True Story (NZ phat beats)
• Dub Conspiracy, (more NZ phat beats)
• U2, All that you can’t leave behind. (We played “Beautiful Day” straight after we got tickets).

What are you currently reading?

• I’ve nearly finished Merton’s Intimate Diaries and I’m trying to start Beldon’s Landscapes of the Sacred. Being in New Zealand, the whole issue of what following a God of reconciliation means for colonialism and land issues is stirring me. I’m watching movies like Whale Rider and In My Father’s Den and I’m feeling like Jacob, wandering through a strange land in which I find a “holy” place (Genesis 28:11 in the Good News). Since Jacob has never been there before, he’s possibly found a holy place from the religion of his day. So, what does it mean for me, like Jacob, to find a stairway to heaven in someone’s else’s land?

Some friends of mine have noticed that there seems to be an absence of interest in the Hebrew Scriptures in the conversations around missional churches. These conversations seem to speak about needing to start with Christology, with Jesus and in many cases the Old Testament seems to be missed out, to what extent can the Hebrew Scriptures offer new models to the Church that is emerging?

• Ahh, and I have just mentioned a Hebrew Scripture like Genesis!:) More seriously, it’s interesting that the mission-model of most of the Hebrew Bible was centripetal, going up to Jerusalem. Then in the New Testament it becomes more centrifugal, going out from Jerusalem. In the simple binary opposites of some of my modernist friends, this becomes attractional vs incarnational. But then you read someone like Brueggemann, who wrote this fantastic little essay about mission in the Old Testament. He delves into all these fascinating nooks and crannies; cities of refuge in Deuteronomy and taxation in Solomon’s time and hope in Hosea. And boom. Suddenly mission is vast and contextual and wholistic. You can spend a lot of missional time in the Hebrew Scriptures.

In what ways can the church may be able to support, tend to and provide a service to new forms of mission?

• I was amazed doing research as part of shaping the Out of Bounds Church? book, that the overwhelming answer to this was one word “relationships.” Young leaders and new “missionaries” wanted people who would listen, laugh, cry, encourage them. Sure money and space would be nice, but nothing seemed to beat a hug of encouragement.

You use the term “midwife” to describe the role that Gen Xers and the emerging forms of church are requesting from the church, why do you think this is the case?

• I love the image because it gives dignity to the emerging church, honour to the birthing Spirit of God, and a vital role for existing forms of church. The image keeps the focus on the health of the baby. It suggests that God might actually know what God is doing among new forms of church. It encourages relationship and reminds us that intervention can be required at times.

I had no issue with the conversations in your book, I heard the message loud and clear, but I wonder if that was/is because the book is written about me, about my friends and my peers, about my generation. I wonder what we can do with the generation beyond me, do you know of authors or people who are dealing with similar issues with Generation Y, and to what extent does the book speak about how we can minister with Gen Yers?

• I used to joke that the emerging church I planted, Graceway, was a bunch of U2 fans growing old together. We were, and so we all laughed. But I did it deliberately, because it reminded us that our kids might hate our music. So the true mission challenge for Graceway would be allowing the space for our kids to express faith in their language. So in terms of what Xers can do for Gen Yers; the challenge will be for the emerging church to not just be mid-wived, but to mid-wife.

I’m interested in the matriarchal language of birth, midwifery and creation, particularly that the language is coming out of a largely patriarchal system, men are coming up with the models and terms.
To what extent do you find new forms of church addressing issues of gender balance?
To what extent do you see female leaders being encouraged to explore similar issues to those written in your book?

• Oh, you have read the book closely. Well done. I prefer the term “feminine” to “matriarchal,” since I’m not sure replacing one model of “archy” with another model of “archy” is a step toward equality. Certainly the feminine images were deliberate. I believe one of the major challenges for the church is to re-balance and re-capture such dimensions and the feminine language was part of that process for me. It’s a huge mission issue, and all the time we hold a subversive set of Scriptures that speak of God as birthmother. But at times I wonder if the emerging church has made much progress. This year I’ve listened to women over coffee about 3/4s of the way through conferences and I got quite depressed. I am not sure I have many answers, but certainly the use of more feminine images was my attempt to speak to the issue and to encourage a more Biblical missiology.

Someone once said to me that “the only people that can minister to Xers are Xers.” If that’s really the case, then where midwifes come from might be as important, if not more important than offering the support to a community. In what ways do you think we can source, train and encourage people into midwife roles?

• I don’t agree that only like can minister to like. Yes, incarnational expressions of faith do emerge best from those within the culture. But the midwife image encourages anyone, no matter their age, to give love and time, with the goal of letting birth attain it’s full potential. Pete Ward, who writes about youth ministry in the UK, said something I found really helpful. “Don’t you dare learn the technology. Let your teenagers do that.” That’s midwifing. That’s being in ministry, but letting the Incarnational forms be shaped by the next generation.

You explore a number of images of God in the book, God as musician and composer, God as designer and dresser, God as architect and builder, and God as crafter and artesian. Since writing the book what image has become central to your ministry, and have there been any other images that have come to mind that could feed into the book’s imagery?

• We used all those images in worship a few weeks ago. We showed images of architectural work and crafts to Moby’s “God moved over the waters” and then invited people to express how their work that week might link with any of these images. We collected them up along with the offering. It was nice.

Your book suggests that the role of the church is therefore to act as guides, to act as resources for spiritual tourists, what difference do you think there is between seeing people as consumer or as tourist?

• It gives people dignity. “Consumer” is a dirty word in Christian circles, which is strange because we all consume. So rather than demonize consumption, we need to find ways to consume Christianly. I wish I’d had the space to write a chapter on this in the book. (But there is an edited book on youth ministry in New Zealand called “Culture – Yeah Right” coming out soon, in which I got a chance to write about this.) So for me, tourist offers another way of looking at people. It gives them space to move and grow. It challenges us to Incarnation, to cast our spirituality into the waters of our culture. It asks us to let go of the results.

Do you think that the role of DJ a missiological calling? If so, how does the church recognize people with the gift, encourage and train them?

• No, we all DJ. For example, most Christians have opinions on Harry Potter and Santa. That’s being a DJ. The question is, how good a DJ are we? So, the church trains by offering models. If you go into a church with blank white walls and you never hear talk about how the church or minister engages with a piece of culture, then congratulations. Your church has given you no insights into how to engage with culture. It is raising up untrained DJ’s. The trouble is, you then go home from the church service past bus shelters with advertising and to school to listen to your friends discuss TV programmes. Congratulations, your “white walled” church has given you no training to DJ.
The church trains by modeling how to engage with the culture we live in, how to subvert and applaud and challenge. It provides examples of how to DJ in culture. It explores the variety of ways the Scriptures DJ. It shows movies and offers art and enhances people’s interpretive skills.

You have spoken about the problem with NZ “seeing a new generation of leaders emerge”. How would you work towards improving the situation?

• It was part of the reason I left Graceway, the church I planted. I wanted to offer young leaders opportunity. I was also offered a chance to work at the Bible College of New Zealand on training for the emerging church. Alongside that I became pastor of a 96 year old declining church (Opawa Baptist) and we are moving into mentoring and internship models. We have people from US and UK joining us and we have just called one of the interns, a young woman, into pastoral leadership in the church.

You write: “Rather than move from theory to practice, the emerging church has simply practiced, sometimes without much theory. The emerging church needs the space to keep practicing, yet it also needs to be theological about it’s practices. We need to move from emerging by being all about candles to emerging by being a truly new kind of life with God.” (pp161)
What are some ways that the church that is emerging could be more centred on theological reflection?
Are there people who have inspired you in this way?

• It’s strange, but I pick up a vibe of anti-intellectualism coming out of the emerging church in Australia. Maybe I’m wrong. I just think we called to love God with all ourselves, and that includes actions and minds. I’m not talking about the myths of theology as angels dancing on pin heads or cloistered in ivory towers. I’m talking about good rigorous examination of what we do, in light of other churches (tradition) and in light of the Scriptures. I’m talking about questioning ourselves in the presence of our friends. I’ve been inspired by Mike Riddell and encouraged by Olive and John Drane. I love the work of French mystic Michel de Certeau, and the way he explored how cultures respond to change.

Much of the book was taken from your phd studies, is it still possible to get a copy of your phd?

• Yes, just drop me a line.

Are you writing something else at the moment, is there another book in the works?

• As an author, I have this paranoid fear that my writing is a waste of trees and a readers time. But in my more confident moments I am working on a book on how the Bible is used in the emerging church. Many of us have seen it used badly, yet our cultural shift is giving us opportunity to embrace multi-sensory, subversive, interactive, communal ways of engagement. So I’m writing around that. And I am playing with a book on leadership. I am fascinated by the way Paul uses 7 images to describe his leadership in 1 Corinthians. That suggests huge diversity. I’d like to explore how they apply to all of life – in our homes and workplaces and schools. But I’m not sure I’m wise enough to write that particular book.

What, if any are some of the differences both theologically and missiologically do you see between the church that is emerging in Au, NZ, US and UK? and what opportunities might these differences present?

• Ah, the last question. How honest should I be or how far can I put my foot down my mouth? UK are strong in incarnational worship, but weak because they emerged from a resistance to evangelical charismatics. They are also coloured by the strength of Anglicanism in the UK. Being a state church, this is a structure that tends not to encourage innovation. It is also an ecclesiology focused on worship rather than community.
US are loud in word (book and blog) and so have focused much attention on the missiological imperatives of our time. But they are weakened by the fact they live as a culture at the centre rather than the edge.
Aussies are strong in can do and have taken missiology seriously, but are weakened by their cultural captivity to mateship, which breeds an insularity, a herd mentality and an anti-intellectualism.
Kiwis have been innovative but have been damaged by some of their denominations and are weak in seeing a new generation of leaders emerge.
There, I’ve probably put my foot too far down my throat. Overall, there’s too much swagger in the emerging church and not enough humble listening, to the culture, to the edges, to each other. There, have I swaggered enough?

Cheers Steve,

Thanks for your thoughts and your time in putting this together…

Once again I’d like to encourage people to pick up the book “The Out of Bounds Church” and give it a good read, perhaps you can join in on the conversations on Steve’s blog, or the book’s blog.

Also after sending Steve the interview questions he’s started a series titled “emerging church postcards” where he’ll be receiving and posting images and stories from emerging faith communities from all over the world, except for the US…

I’ve decided to pick up Steve Taylor’s new book “The Out of Bounds Church: Learning to Create a Community of Faith in a Culture of Change” and give it a read. I’ll review each chapter one by one and include my own thoughts as well as describing some of the major themes in the chapter.

Spend some time checking through my thoughts, but please do go out and purchase the book as it’s a good read with some great suggestions and theological discussions for people, for the church to think through.

Links:

• Steve Taylor’s Blog
• Purchase the book from Amazon.com
• The Book at Zondervan

Postcard 1 – Beyond Romeo and Juliet

When I go on holidays and send a postcard (ok, I send emails, postcards are too slow) to friends and family I usually begin by talking about the latest places that I’ve been, about the differences in the place I am, about the people I meet. I describe the culture and the feel and the food…

In a sense that’s what Steve does in this chapter, he describes the landscape, the people and the culture. He uses two versions of Romeo and Juliet, the one by Baz Luhrmann and the one by Franco Zeffirelli to describe the changes in the world today. One using slow pan’s and dialogue and the other using multiple cuts and changing the cultural setting where the movie is set.

Steve talks about Identity, Tribalism, postmodernity and fast/cutting all in a handful of pages, it’s full of great quotes and cultural observations. This chapter is all about the place we’re living in, and as such it is enlightening, encouraging and easy to read.

Interesting Quotes:

“When you spend your life immersed in the fast/cutting of text and image, fast/cutting becomes the way that you process and learn. Suddenly, the slow camera pan and the monologue become artificial, fale, hard to follow. When you’re used to surfing from image to image, three point sermons start to sound like archaic King James English.” (pp21)

“In many ways, body modification is the natural offspring of a culture in which identity is found in how we look and the experiences we live out” (pp26) “Identity is also about making our life stories public; I define myself as I tell you who I am” (pp26) “In our contemporary world, individuals are now choosing to come together for the purpose of finding meaning in their lives; the community has become a tool for the individual.” (pp28)

Things I’ve been thinking about while reading this chapter:

a) I’m beginning to hate using the term postmodern. I think it’s because I hate being boxed, and by calling me postmodern, I’m boxed. I used to like the idea of post-postmodern until I read a piece by Brian Mclaren a while back on “why I still use the term postmodern” where he spoke of the eras of prehistoric, medieval and modernity lasting centuries. I’m beginning to lean back to where I spoke about “the time that we’re in” rather than postmodern… I also wonder if people in the modern era used to speak of themselves in similar ways…

Person 1. “I’m modern, I like facts and believe there is an ultimate truth”
Person 2: “ahhh that sounds like me, I’m modern too, I like going to church and being preached too…”

b) “The remote in one hand and the Gospel in the other” says Steve prior to referring to Karl Barth’s legendry statement about needing the Bible in one hand and the Newspaper in the other. Two things struck me.

1. While I’m permanently attached to my remote (that is when I can remember where I put it last) I wonder if it’s now more relevant to speak about having Google.com in one hand, or the internet. I spend more time online than watching tv, and maybe that’s just me, but I don’t know many people who use the newspaper to check the weather or movies anymore…
2. There’s an absence in the conversations of the mission-centred church. We often speak about needing to start with Christology, with Jesus instead of Missiology or Ecclesiology, but I think we’re missing something. Steve writes the “Gospel of Jesus” in one hand, the Forge training I did spoke about Jesus and Christology. For me, there’s an absence of the Hebrew scriptures when we fail to use it in these discussions. I understand why it’s done, but I am concerned about it.

c) Steve talks about movies a lot. I’m a movie person, but I’m GenX. I had a conversation with Fuzz Kitto the other day where I asked if we’ve now moved from a time where the ears were the primary receptors (and we were happy to hear things), to a time where the eyes became the receptors (and we needed to see things) and if now we’re in a time where our stomachs, our guts have become the primary receptors. We need to be moved, to feel things, that would explain the need for sub woofers in cars and in home stereos. I wonder if in the GenYers and beyond we’re seeing a change where our gut’s are our primary receptors.

So in one hand I hear the conversation loud and clear, because he’s talking about me, my friends and my peers, but I also wonders about those beyond me, who this may still be alien to…

Then again Steve’s writing this to us, and to church people who are trying to figure out wtf is going on, but it’s an observation about me…

d) He quotes Andela McRobbie “The reason why postmodernism appeals to a wide number of young people…” Let’s just get this straight, postmodernism doesn’t “appeal” to me, it just is where and when I live, I don’t really choose to be modern or post… This line of thought and quotes like this annoy me, as I assume it does others.

e) “Because of the world of music, teenagers are apt to be more connected culturally to teenagers on the other side of the world than to their parents in the other room” (pp29)

It’s interesting that music has this separating/bringing together power. Music is now so sub-culturally biased that most teenagers are more apt to being connected to people across the word than in their own classroom. It’s interesting that music can do this, and the more that music becomes aimed at sub-cultures the more segregation there will be…

Postcard 2 – Edges of Culture

This chapter primarily discusses some of Michael de Cereau’s research on culture and the community’s dialogue with it.

Rather than seeing culture as something that comes from the top down and is imposed on people Steve uses Michel’s research to talk about how people, often people on the edges of the society respond, reflect, use and subvert the culture of the society.

Steve coins the term “cultural DJs” where each and every one of us are in the process of cutting, mixing and representing the culture in which we live, Michel uses the terms “strategy” which is the process that businesses and institutions seek to organise society and “tactics” which are the resources and skills that the people use to dialogue, interpret, deal and subvert the strategies.

This chapter’s about the edge being the space of cultural creativity and subversion, about the edge being the space where leaders need to be and emerge from, about challenging the Church to see this shift as an opportunity rather than a crisis.

Interesting Quotes:

”Discussion on cultural change should focus not only on the content of the video or the TV program. It must also consider what people do with what they watch, how they use the remote and the video recorder, how they verbally respond and later reflect over the workroom table.” (pp36)

”Dominated but never conquered, groups combine. They keep alive their memories. The creatively take the imposed frames of reference – including those imposed by the church – and reemploy them for their own identity”(pp36/37) ”1999 – Matrix 1: Within a week of its theatrical release, we Emailers had a discussion that continued for 2 months.
2003 – Matrix 2: Within a week of its theatrical release, we Bloggers posted a single weblog entry that added to our interpretation and appreciation of the movie. It lasted a few days.
2003 – Matrix 3: Within a week of its theatrical release, we VJ’s had access to enough footage to reuse the video in our own presentations. Even before its release, we could download the movie trailer files, edit, modify, and reuse in totally different ways.
2004 – Matrixonline.com: Within a week of the matrixonline.com game release, we Gamers will have another playground, another world, another community in which we can play and live.
Within 6 years, we have moved from Consumer, to Commenter, to Co-author, to Citizen” from tallskinny”

Things I’ve been thinking about while reading this chapter:

This chapter was very easy to read, it explained Michel de Certeau’s thoughts very simply and was able to really start to figure out where we’re called to be and where the edges are. I wish I’d had this chapter a week or two ago when we were doing the “youth, culture and mission” course, I’d have used some of it for the session on culture.

I was also interested in the conversation about becoming cultural DJs, cutting and mixing everything around us. It’s an interesting idea that moves from the traditional understanding of not only media as imposing it’s agenda but also the concept that all postmoderns can do is deconstruct. To mix and playback one needs to be able to reconstruct.

Postcard 3 – Koru Theology

This chapter, Koru theology is about creating, about re-birthing and about supporting the birth of a new expression of community. Steve talks about the God of new beginnings, the God of creation and how much of the new forms of community and church could be seen as God and us recreating. The Koru is the unfurling fern. The theologizing primarily reflects on the life-giving actions of God.

The second part of this chapter reflects on how the church may be able to support, tend to and provide a service to these new forms of mission. Steve uses the term “midwife” to describe the role that Gen Xers and the emerging forms of church are requesting. That these people want friends, mentors, encouragement rather than strategic plans, books or formulas.

Interesting Quotes:

”labor and birth are unique to each person. No two are the same each needs to be traveled through and approached differently. The midwife needs patience to allow the labor to unfold and progress.” (pp54)

”new birth is intrinsic to resurrection. God is portrayed as experiencing labor pains and in the resurrection of Jesus we hear the first cry of life. Birth, or koru theology, is essential to god, who acts in creation, in Israel and in Jesus’ teaching, death and resurrection. (pp49)”

”the experience of being human is not that of being in common, but that of being separate.” (pp51)

Things I’ve been thinking about while reading this chapter:

Often in the EC scene I feel that we’re not doing enough theologizing about the what’s and why’s and how’s we’re doing things. Perhaps that a bit of our impatience, our passion for things to happen now, which may be a reason that many of the theologians that I’m starting to find coming out and writing interesting things are females. The men seem to want to “do” the mission and to do it now.

But I have to ask, what about the environment, eco theology, what about liberation theology, what about the wider thinking of a church of faith that in much of the EC stuff seems to be lacking. We start with the doing, then if it lasts we’ll get to the thinking later. Perhaps a part of this midwifing role needs to include theological reflection. Note, I don’t mean Christological reflection, although that may be a large part of the process.

Perhaps Theology is seen as an institutional role, and is therefore feared by postmoderns and Xers, this is partially frightening…

I’m also interested in the matriarchal language of birth, midwifery and creation. I’m interested because the language is coming out of a largely patriarchal system, men are coming up with the models or terms, the church as a mother when it’s primarily male dominated hierarchy.

I wonder if the new forms of church are always going to be doomed to being male dominated.

I was glad to see Maggi’s voice in amongst this conversation, she offers some great theological reflections to the EC that I feel sometimes is lacking.

I have also been reflecting on something that came up in a conversation with Fuzz Kitto the other day when he said that he thinks that “the only people that can minister to Xers are Xers.” If that’s really the case, then where the midwifes come from might be as important, if not more important than offering the support to a community.

Postcard 4 – Creativity Downloaded

This chapter continues the ideas and thoughts that are raised while thinking about a creative God, about creation and about the place that being creative and artistic have in a community of faith. Steve begins to develop a theology of playfulness and creativity in this chapter, this theology is hoped to inform and encourage the church to be more playful.

Steve explores several themes:
- God as musician and composer, the one who creates music and who encourages and orchestrates it, the one who rejoices and composes it.
- God as designer and dresser, the one who designs clothes but also the one who dresses us as a people of faith to be able to live in the world.
- God as architect and builder, the one who lays the foundations and the one who creates an architectural project so massive that noone else would ever conceive attempting.
- God as crafter and artesian, the one who is both potter and painter.

Steve also plays with the image of God at play. In doing this he introduces the reader to the idea and process of Godly Play, a process that I’ve used with children and in a way have also used within congregational settings… by playing we invite the playful God into our midst.

Steve’s basic concept for this postcard is that the task for the missional church is to create spaces and frameworks in which people can play and be creative, where artists and artisans and architects all of a fractured culture to meet with a creative and playful God. The arts is a major part of this, the need to be able to play with the image of God, with the stories of God, with each other’s story of God and with each other.

Interesting Quotes:

”In many ways, the emerging church is a community at play. Rather than sticking with an existing or inherited theology, the emerging church understands theology as a place for innovation and the fresh breathings of God.” (pp54)

”God plays with creation. All that is play that the deity gives itself. It has imagined the creature for it’s pleasure. (pp49)” ”Thus the question is not “will we construct God in our own image?” It is “will we let the image of God construct us?” It’s not the images that are the issue, but the faithfulness of our image making.” (pp51)

Things I’ve been thinking about while reading this chapter:

I love the idea of a playful God, infact it’s probably why I’ve stuck with youth and children’s ministry so long, I feel that I’m not able to play with the text enough when I’m in a congregational setting, I’m not allowed to dream of new ways of being, or that I am allowed it’s just that the paint brushes and mixers have been hidden and locked up so as to keep them safe from being broken. In ministry with youth and children though there are so few people who are wanting t play with them that there’s always a space and time to bring out the paintbrushes and play dough without being told of or the fear of breakage.

The church definitely has forgotten the power of the arts, the playfulness of a God who is both potter and molder, who is able to get god’s hands messy and clay all over the workplace. We’ll sing the song lyrics but heaven forbid if we bring out a clay wheel. We’ll talk about the beauty of a painting but no way will we place it wher the banner that the children’s club created 25 years ago sits…

And we wonder why the most creative people in many congregations are the elderly ladies who do the flower roster. Where are the artisans who created our stained glass windows? Where are the painters who painted the cathedrals, where are the sculptures that made our crosses and icons and candelabras? Art has become too messy for our clean churches to handle, and as such we’ve lost connection with many of the people who like to play, who are created to create.

Steve offers an interesting beginning to a theology of the arts and culture that I’d like to see him develop more… I’d have preferd Steve to write less about the missiology stuff and continue with this line of thought, this is the interesting stuff, this is the playing that I’d like to see in the theological halls and congregations.

Postcard 5 – Spiritual Tourism

In this chapter Steve talks about Spiritual Tourists and the possibilities for the (emerging) church if they are to see people as tourists. No two tourists are alike, some are experiential, searching for meaning in cultures, others might be experimental looking for new meaning and others have found meaning and have relocated to the space where they’ve found it.

If spiritual tourists are on a spiritual journey, then a part of our mission as a church is to help the tourists orientate themselves. Traditionally the signposts have been pointing back into the congregation but to guide all that wish to walk. The role of the church is therefore to act as guides, to act as resources for tourists. This line of thought moves us beyond gathered worship towards the business of souvenir making.

Steve also speaks of the Internet as a form of tourism, cybertourists all have equal access tot eh internet’s resources and communities. On the internet the call of Cybermonk is a calling that many people are hearing and taking up as a new missionary calling.

Interesting Quotes:

” If we hold that all people have a spirituality, spiritual tourism is not an act of consumption, but an alignment with a heart that is restless until it has founf it’s home in God.” (pp97)

”Walter Brueggemann describes the task of mission in a postmodern world as one of funding, of providing the bits and pieces out of which a new world can be imagined. ” (pp92) ” Spiritual Seekers stroll the pick-and-mix supermarket of spiritual options, looking for spiritual practices. They search out ritual and mystery, hoping for relevance and cultural coherence. They want an individualism holistically connected with others.” (pp51)

Things I’ve been thinking about while reading this chapter:

Tourism is an interesting metaphor… The usual metaphor to describe “seekers” is consumers, not tourists. Tourists aren’t generally shopping for items, for souvenirs, instead they’re interested in seeing things, meeting people, taking photos, eating food and building stories to share with their friends and families. Tourists generally tell people all about their journey, word of mouth is very important.

I’ve often contemplated developing a Not-So-Lonely-Guide for “spiritual tourists” and I think Steve’s writing has nudged me again to re-think how I’d do just that. Developing signposts and tour-guides for people who are searching and touring the spiritual landscape.

The real question for me is how we move people from being tourists to being guides. At Uni I had a lot of mates who would take up the role of tour guide for new students, many of the guides had been in university for years. One friend in particular had been in and out of 3 or 4 different bachelor degrees, and while not having completed any found that he could now tour guide for some added cash. Tourists don’t have to cease being tourists in order to guide, but is there a place where they need to be connected to a home-base? Is the role of tourist a missiological calling?

Postcard 6 – Redemptive Portals

With the definition of redemption as “the purchase back of something that had been lost” and the definition of redemptive practices as “safe space, hospitality, shared lives, finding Christ in the stranger, welcoming diversity and embracing difference” Steve challenges the church to become a redemptive community.

Steve retells the story of the road to Emmaus where the husband and wife, while walking home meet a stranger who was also walking (a tourist?) and was also unaware of the tragedy and death that had just occurred. Yet the two continued to walk along and offered hospitality to the stranger and eat with him and recognize him in the breaking of the bread. For Steve community is a place where God is revealed, community is necessary.

Steve speaks of his community’s tradition of using a bar stool as a place where people can share their stories with the community, where people who might not be of the faith may still be able to use the space. He also speaks of a conversation with a group of people in the church where he was asked “how do you control the barstool?” His response was that there is no control over the barstool, I like the idea that authority is based on a fear of the might lead to human subjectivity and emotion. I wonder how much of that is true with everything that we do.

This chapter is about a God who is found in community, a redemptive community and about the people that are seeking out that type of community.

Interesting Quotes:

”The concern about authority in community is based in the fear that the barstool, and all that it entails, might lead to human subjectivity and emotion. However Christianity is uniquely placed in response to this concern. ” (pp105)

” The task of the church is to live the story of the gospel, preaching not only in words, but in the actions of the community. Love is heard, but love is also felt and observed through too much of the community. (pp106)” ” personal narrative is validated only through incorporating the values of the religious community into that narrative, and in effect, making the community narrative one’s own.” (pp102)

Things I’ve been thinking about while reading this chapter:

I’m having caffeine withdrawal, this headache’s getting worse…

When I think about my experience in the TOLLS community and place it alongside this chapter a number of things ring true. We gathered and shared our stories and it was in the sharing that the community’s narrative grew, but we each picked up each others stories and made them a part of our own. TOLLS for a number of us was about redemption.

I like the idea that the Kingdom of God becoming vibrant and diverse the more that we see redemptive communities being our goal. I also find resonance with the idea of creating portals of redemption, places that network people with redemption and redemptive practices.

Postcard 7 – Missional Interface

In this chapter Steve explores ways in which we might be able to create communities flexible enough to weather the constant introduction and leaving of new tourists and those who are wanting to commit to a community.

This chapter primarily deals with two different types of communities.

Peg Communities. Peg communities provide a focus (a peg) that disconnected individuals can focus on together. Examples include rock concerts, festivals, once off events.

Ethical Communities. Ethical Communities are built on long term commitments. Examples include house communities and monasteries.

Steve explores several examples of these communities and how they fit into the two types of communities.

For more information:
- A post on these communities on the old Steve Taylor blog – A post on the Mike Riddell website titled “Beyond Ground Zero”

Steve also provides some possibilities for the church to take on that might provide some new ways of connecting with tourists.

Interesting Quotes:

”our notions of community are no longer found in a family related by blood. Instead, individuals search for communities of choice in which they can belong and make sense of their lives. ” (pp116)

” Cafes are unique social spaces where people go specifically to be with others and yet be seperate. (pp116)”

” Festival spirituality offers much to a postmodern world. It allows smaller ethical communities to be nourished by the variety and choice of large-scale celebration. It allows those on the fringes – on the outside – of our communities to peg with us and sample our lives” (pp123)

Things I’ve been thinking about while reading this chapter:

This is probably my favorite chapter in the book, it provides some practical thinking about the formation of communities. I think that the church by large has relied on a mutated form of the ethical community, the bare bones of the community might have been an ethical community but over time it’s mutated.

This chapter was very important to me as lately we’ve been thinking about Sacred Space at Blackstump. Sacred space is a touching point, an alternative worship space at the Blackstump festival. I’ve jumped into a group of people coordinated by Dean Tregenza to discuss the possibilities for the up and coming festival. When I compare Steve’s thoughts on festival spirituality and my thoughts of trying to provide people with resources to take home and to educate people, to provide them with souvenirs and practices to take with them I’m really encouraged. I’ll have to spend more time thinking about this section at a later time, but for now I’m encouraged and inspired by Steve’s thoughts here. (Dean, if you’re reading this we need to read this stuff together)

Speaking of Blackstump, I liked the Fuzz Kitto quote (I assume it was Fuzz, he said the same thing to me last week) that some kids are naming Blackstump as their faith community. If that’s so, then we really need to provide more thought to the spiritual souvenirs, practices and artifacts that we provide young people to take home. For me this means that the stuff that we’re doing at Sacred Space actually becomes almost more important than the main speakers.

Emerging, emerging, emerging… Just an observation, for once I’d like to see Steve write “the Church” and not “the emerging church.” I currently have an issue with the term emerging church, especially as it’s used so much in the book. When we refer to “one holy and apostolic church” I mean everyone together, the good, the bad and the emerging.

Postcard 8 – Culture Samplers

Steve’s already written that we are all cultural DJ’s, in this chapter he starts a conversation about how the church can become DJs, we need to be able to DJ the gospel and culture, remix the gospel and culture. He continues to explain the role of the DJ as mixing two sounds to create one musical piece. Steve outlines some biblical references to cultural DJing, using writings from Peter he presents us with ways that the writers of the bible used culture DJing to get the message of Christ to them.

The role of the DJ however does not stop there, Steve goes on to talk about DJing worship, using stories and liturgies from worship services in communities in NZ as an example Steve points us to a space where our worship is handed to the DJ who is able to mix liturgies and culture and the gospel to create spaces for people to worship.

Moving on Steve speaks about how DJing has implications on how we do mission and begins to spell out a number of issues that we need to keep in mind when becoming cultural and Missional DJs, as he outlines these issues he provides practical examples of how this might affect mission, worship and community.

Interesting Quotes:

”It is not Christ or culture, but Christ imaged in culture . It is a missional engagement that practices both connective expression through images while allowing subversion and resistance.” (pp139)

”we are born into a culture. One with messages, norms and expectations that we know simply because we live with them every day. We can’t ignore them even if we want to. (pp144)”

” Ours is not the task of finding a complete story. Ours is the task of funding, of facing mission one sample at a time.” (pp51)

Things I’ve been thinking about while reading this chapter:

I like the idea of djing, infact it’s basically what I’ve been doing for the last 6 years of my life, yet there’s a gut feeling that I have that makes me wonder if there’s something more to this than just what is presented in the book. DJing today is not just about finding two sounds, its about finding multiple sounds, about finding the appropriate beats, the appropriate rhythm, its about creating a space, it’s about being adaptive and feeling the sounds, it’s about seeing the sound in places where no one else does, it’s about being original, it’s about hunting through second hand record collections…

A while back DJing was about combining two sounds, but then came the pc and artists who saw the entire kit as a musical instrument as a whole, not just the combining of music, but the creation of music, not of something new, but of something that has never been heard before. Scratching is an art to itself…

And then there’s VJing, which adds a visual element to this thought. What’s the role of the VJ in a church full of DJs?

I wonder if there’s such a thing as bad DJs and great DJs, if great DJs are like artists who are constantly seeking inspiration, constantly seeking audiences, constantly recording new sounds. If they are, then the call of a DJ is not necessarily one that each of us can take up, but we need to be seeking out, recognizing gifts and supporting the growth of DJs. We need to buy the material for them to use, the tools for the job, we need to provide dance halls and lighting…

I actually don’t think that anyone can DJ, it’s a calling. I’m not saying that Steve’s suggesting that we all can, but I do want to say that we need to take DJs more seriously than the original DJs were ever taken.

Postcard 9 – Keeping the Campfire Burning

Most people end trips by sending a postcard saying “I’m heading home, I look forward to seeing you soon.”

Instead Steve writes his last postcard from home, it’s purpose is to encourage the (emerging) church and to wish new travelers well.

And that’s how he ends the book, by telling a story then wishing us all well and asking us to keep the home fires burning.

Interesting Quotes:

”Rather than move from theory to practice, the emerging church has simply practiced, sometimes without much theory. The emerging church needs the space to keep practicing, yet it also needs to be theological about it’s practices. We need to move from emerging by being all about candles to emerging by being a truly new kind of life with God.” (pp161)

Things I’ve been thinking about while reading this chapter:

It’s ended it’s ended!!!

Tallskinni said he read it in the bath, yet it took me a number of beers and three days to get through. I’ve enjoyed the journey with Steve as he traveled the world and met people, shared their stories and began to ask theological questions about the ministry and mission of the communities and the culture in which we live.

I do think that this is still a part of the beginning of something, this is a part of the calling for us to rediscover a theology of mission and of the calling we have. It’s not an ending and so I look forward for further travels.

I love the way that Steve has written this book, its been fun, enlightening and thought provoking. I really enjoyed the sections on community; it’s given me a language to describe my feelings and experiences.

I am left wondering about the generations beyond X, this book has highlighted to me the centeredness of mission to Xers that the emerging church seems to have… Is it self serving? If so, is that bad? If so, what about the generations after X? Where will that conversation happen?

I’m also left increasingly miffed at the constant use of “emerging church” and not “church.” I personally think that while it may be a helpful marketing tool, (to pick the emerging church market) but it may also mean that the larger church ignores the messages that Steve offers the wider community. I continually ask when the emerging church will stop describing itself by what it is not (Church) and start to embrace it’s place as a part of the holy and catholic community that we are each a part of.

And as for the use of postcards… I like the idea, and in this book it works really well but who uses them nowdays? If we’re wanting to connect with people at home and say hello then, im many countries we can just sms them, email them, send digital photos by phone or by email, we can use msn or skype or if we’re lucky Voip. Postcards nowdays are forms of cultural advertisements, small enough for people to wander up to think “hey that’s cool” and pocket them, they’re not to tell people how you are but a way that products now connect with people. In a way postcard advertising is a way of “pegging” people into the community of people who own the product. I havent bought a postcard in about 10 years, and even after moving I send people e-postcards with photos and text in an email… something I took, something I created…

All up this book has been a lot of fun, challenging, enlightening, encouraging, easy to read and it’s been one of my favorite reads of the last year or so, I’d like to encourage everyone to pick up a copy and give it a go, then to continue the discussion that Steve has started, it is a process of emerging afterall…

My Rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars